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Lori
Posts:10
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| 07/02/2010 6:08 AM |
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| Reading the section on men being visual was enlightening...but I feel that more needs to be talked about in this section about when being visual is good and when it's not. I believe that God gave the gift of "visualality" to men, and that it was perfect. It was for the wife's benefit to make the husband so deeply attracted to his wife. While I get that it is "normal" now for men to not struggle with being visual with women other than their wives, I don't think being visual is the reason. I think it's because man is sinful. (and don't get me wrong, the women dressing seductively are just as sinful.) It just seems to me that men being "visual" is being used as an excuse as to why they just can't "help but to look." I just don't buy it. Men can help it. They can choose to look away and honor their wives and, ultimately, God.
Cause look, if a guy is by himself and is flipping through the channels of the TV and a naked woman appears on one of the channels...he will probably pause and look and least for a while. But why? If he was doing the same thing but his two little kids were with him watching, he would probably change the channel as fast as possible. So being "visual" doesn't force a man to stare. Otherwise he'd do so even with his kids around. Does he not stare cuz when he's alone, no one is seeing what he's doing?
I don't know, I think I'm just frustrated from hearing excuses. What do you guys/gals think? |
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Stan McCullars
Posts:3
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| 07/03/2010 12:46 AM |
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I agree 100%!
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Lori
Posts:10
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| 07/03/2010 4:32 PM |
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| Thank you!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. |
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Gail
Posts:1
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| 07/10/2010 5:14 AM |
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| I agree that it's not an excuse to sin - when a man willfully looks at a woman (who is not his wife) in a sexual manner, the fault lies with him and him alone. Of course men have the choice and therefore the responsibility to look away, or in your example, to change the channel as fast as possible. However, I don't think that the author was trying to excuse men. Rather, I understood the book to simply be pointing out a common weakness in many men. Because men are visual, they will struggle more in this area. They still have the choice; making the right choice, the choice to look away, is simply more difficult for them because they are visual. I believe that in many cases, they honestly can't help but notice a woman initially - in your example, the woman on the TV is there, he has seen her, and there is nothing he can do to change that. However, he does have the choice not to dwell on what he has seen/noticed and to immediately look away. That's where the difference lies. I believe the author included this information not to excuse men, but to help women understand their struggle and to do what we can to help them in it, such as dressing modestly and praying for them. That was my understanding, anyway. |
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jw2010
Posts:3
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| 08/02/2010 12:35 PM |
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| Good words Gail. That chapter was hard for me too. I am a visual women. I can recall images fairly easily.....wether wanted or unwanted. So I feel my husbands pain when he sees a woman who dressed immodestly and will now have that image in his brain.....tempting him to recall it and keep it, and dwell on it.
I see it like I experience my own temptations.....the devil is standing by waiting for me to let my guard down so he can start poking and prodding and getting me to rationalize that whatever sin I am dwelling on is ok. It can be so exhausting to hold your guard up at all times especially if you try to do it on your own. So I ask and truly believe and I recieve God's strength in casting away my temptations. Don't get me wrong, many times I stumble and fall, and God has to pick me up and dust me off.
I think temptation itself is not sinning it's what I do with it that makes it a sin or not. But, it is so much easier for me to not go even close to any temptations. So for our men, dress modestly and Pray for them.
My husband loves me dearly and doesn't want to hurt me, in public, in private or when he is all by himself, and he still struggles with his visual gift from God. God is always with him, God sees all and knows all.
I guess what I really want to say is....I don't feel it is an exuse......its a real daily struggle and battle for my husband. And the good news is.....from what I can see on the outside he is making positive progress.....he is teaming up with God in protecting his heart and turning his eyes from evil. I'm so glad God gave him this visual gift.....with the power of God he will use it for good. |
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jw2010
Posts:3
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| 08/02/2010 12:39 PM |
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| And whether a man uses it as an exuse to look/dwell on or not.....he will have to answer to God. Just remember to trust, believe and pray that your man can overcome his temptations. |
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lyricann
Posts:2
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| 12/28/2010 4:58 PM |
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| The book states that "temptations are not sins. What we do with those temptations is the issue."
I don't feel that statement belongs in this section. I am certainly no author or researcher but there are several scriptures in the Bible that I believe revoke that statement. Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
I feel saying because men are "wired" a certain way it makes it okay to overlook things like being visual is ludacris. I realize that most men are going to look regardless. I'm sure that some husbands think that by looking out of the corner of his eye at a beautiful waitress across the room his wife wont notice. But, more often than not the wives are clued in enough to see it. In my opinion it comes down to whether or not a husband has consideration of his wife and her feelings.
JMO
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Peace
Posts:13
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| 12/29/2010 12:42 PM |
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| Ladies, IMO, that statement absolutely belongs in this section. Looking is not the temptation; looking is the sin. The desire to look lustfully is the temptation. What a man does with that desire is what makes his actions sinful or not. I believe that what Shaunti is trying to say is that most men will be tempted to look at other women, and it is often difficult for them to keep from doing so. She is not saying that it is OK for men to look lustfully at women. She is simply saying that it is a struggle for them. We are all predisposed to one sin or another. Some of us may struggle with drug or alcohol addictions; some have a hard time not gossiping or judging others; some are compulsive liars. But we all struggle with the temptation to sin. Just because we struggle does not make it OK for us to give in to those sins. Shaunti is simply trying to help us to understand that this is a real struggle for men. The purpose of that chapter was simply to help us understand where most men struggle most so that we can come alongside and help them to be the godly men they were created to be. |
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Erin
Posts:2
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| 01/02/2011 11:26 AM |
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| Lori, I agree with you. Being a visual man has a wonderful power when it comes to the woman in his life. But too often being visual is used to defend behavior that is ultimately disrespectful to your partner. Yes, men are visual. This can be a wonderful and positive thing. But when a person uses it to defend behavior that is just lazy, it turns into a negative. Being visual is one thing. Defending being visual to practice lustful behavior is another. |
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Julie Fidler
Posts:172
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| 03/10/2011 6:33 PM |
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I know this is a little late, but I wanted to chime in.
When Shaunti wrote that temptations are not sins, she was referring to the example of Christ himself who was "tempted in every way, yet he did not sin."
Imagine 3 steps.
1. Temptation
2. Fixation
3. Action
Being tempted is not the sin. Deriving pleasure from that temptation and allowing yourself to think on it further IS. So is, obviously, the action.
Julie
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Forum Moderator
Project Specialist for Shaunti Feldhahn |
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Rachel M
Posts:5
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| 04/20/2011 11:06 PM |
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I think that being visual can be used as an excuse for lusting, but that it's wrong to do so. If a man is really seeking to be godly though, he won't excuse his sin.
I'm really glad that Shaunti addressed this issue in FWO. I am more aware of the need to dress modestly and aware of my husband's struggles. I feel so honoured that he works hard at being faithful to me in his thought life. |
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my blog: cherishingthemoment.net |
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john
Posts:13
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| 09/07/2011 4:53 AM |
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| Being visual is being visual, period. There is no excuse for lust. Being visual does not equate to lust, lust is an attitude of the heart, and the refusal to lust after something that you are enticed by is not lust. If a guy is blowing this off and just saying "I cant help but look" then he might as well say "the devil made me do it" Instead of being "tired of excuses" pray for him, that the holy spirit convicts him, that the holy spirit makes him feel uneasy when this happens. If he doesnt follow Jesus, then how can anyone expect a person to have any of character that Christ has... pray that he would get to know Jesus. And to Lyricann.. equating being visual with automatic lust by using Matthew 5:27-28 is prejudging every man on the face of the earth (or woman who is visually stimulated for that matter) God knows the intentions of the heart, to make this a simple matter of consideration for feelings is to say that men have full control over HOW they are visually stimulated. Can you help if you have a craving for some type of food? NO, but you CAN say NO to it, that part you do have control over. How does it feel to have it put in front of you and then you have to say no, but you can. And a man with the holy spirit can also say no to lust. |
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john
Posts:13
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| 09/07/2011 5:17 AM |
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| I hope my previous post did not come off as harsh, that was not my intention, if it does please forgive me. I wanted to add that this visual rolodex concept also has another dimension, its a beast that gets harder to control when you feed it. As a man, If you are married and you fill it with your wife your mind will be flashed with images of your wife, if you are around the world too much, watch too much TV, and other wise around environments where you know women will not be dressed modestly, guess what.. you may not lust after these things but now have to put a lot more effort into making sure you dont lust.. I sure do limit what goes into that rolodex when ever I can. So I too agree that it is NOT an excuse |
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