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Byron
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| 06/24/2009 5:57 PM |
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| Instead of "gutting it out" try this guys. Pursue her like you did when you were first dating. Act like you don't know her anymore and want to know everything you can about her. Take her on dates, sit down at night and talk on the sofa, look into her eyes and ask those crazy questions like, "What is your dream?" Never feel like you have ever really gotten her, always be in pursuit. It is amazing how your eyes turn only towards your wife and how beautiful and sexy she becomes. After a while no other women even stands a chance of being noticed. It really works! Ladies, if you want your man to notice you like this, pursue him. Generally, in most cases, it works. |
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Bev2
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| 06/26/2009 12:33 AM |
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Travis and Byron, Good advise and Biblical observations.
From my experience in working with wives of sex addicts I know that men who are fully sexually addicted can train themselves to "Not Look" and to "Capture" their lustful thoughts and images. If a man who is fully addicted to porn and sexually "acting out" can change his ways then certainly a "normal" man can. There are techniques of "bouncing the eyes away", making phone calls for support and accountability groups that help. In fact FMO is the name of a Christian Sexual Addiction accountability group that came about as a result of Ted Roberts ministry and book - "Pure Desire." Celebrate Recovery also has a men's sexual addiction accountability group. Although your husband may not need all of this support for just his lustful thoughts and peering eyes, it is available. Another great book is Mark Laaser's book, "Healing the Wounds of Sexual Addiction." I think both of these books have material on avoiding lust.
I am not saying that men who lust are addicted. Just that some of the resources available and techniques may be helpful. Also, I want responders to be hopeful that men can work towards having a pure heart, even those who have been in the pit of sexual addiction.
Regarding Cosmetic Surgery. I can only tell you that I know wives who are models and some look like models and they complain just as much about their husbands looking at other women as the plain wives do. They is NOTHING cosmetically any woman can do to keep their husbands from looking at other women. However, men can work to discipline their behavior and their minds. If you see your husband checking out another woman you should express your feelings. That will alert him to his hurtful behavior and help him curve his thoughts. |
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Byron
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| 06/26/2009 2:30 PM |
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| Excelent point about cosmetic surgery. I know a girl who got the star senior athelete as her husband. She most definitely was not a perfect 10, or the most beautiful girl in the school, but she paid attention to him. And she pursued him with everything she had and eventually found out what it was that would turn his head. The tastes of a man's eyes can be tweaked with attention.
My own example of this is: To this day whenever I go fishing I think of my DW. She doesn't like fishing, but one day I came home from work and I found a brand new fishing pole laying on the bed. I knew she went out of her way to buy it. She bought something she didn't like but she knew I would like it. Whenever I touch that pole, or look at it, I think of my DW. She is a very wise woman who knows how to turn my head and my thoughts to her. Attention, trumps physical appearance. |
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MelisaJ
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| 06/26/2009 3:38 PM |
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| Okay, to answer the original quesiton. Yes, it is horrible to think of all that our husbands are supposedly lusting over. The self esteem thing isn't so much an issue for me as I know my appearance has nothing to do with any problems with lust my husband may have, true for everyone else too. What does hurt/anger me is the knowledge that my husband has no self-control, no respect, no dicsipline, if what FWO was saying is true. BUT, something I know is that husbands struggeling in this area may be "normal" by the world's standards but not God's standard. And, He gives the tools to over come to live the "normal" life He made us to live. Talk to your husband, and ask him to do this: If ever he starts to feel tempted start quoting scripture in his head and praying. The idea is that Satan will eventually give up because he doesn't want your husband to get closer to God, which the scripture memorization and praying will do. Which is the bonus too, if your husband is willing to try this his walk with God will get richer! Consider these as starting verses to suggest your husband quote as soon as he starts feeling tempted 2 Cor 10:5-6, Matt 5:27-28, Heb 13:4-6, Prov 6:25, Prov 11:6, Rom 12:2, Gal 5:16, Rom 13:13-14, 1 John 2:15-16, Psalm 101:2-4, Prov 3:3, Psalm 51:10-11, Prov 4:23-27. Hopefully this will re-wire your husband to automatically turn his attention to God the instant he is tempted rather than lustful thoughs as FWO suggests. I felt pain when I read that chapter too, but I think it's a great warning chapter for us to jump in and help our husbands overcome the world's hard wire with God's purpose! |
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Healingfromhurt
Posts:15
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| 06/27/2009 2:59 AM |
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Wow! There have been some fantastic words of wisdom on this topic. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread!
I think I'm now at the point where I need to build my self-esteem up MYSELF with God's help - not with my husband's help because he is a sinner and he will ultimately fail and disappoint me. He knows full well how I feel about his looking and how much hurt it causes me. So, yes, I am aware that he's trying not to look, but the other ladies are too tempting and so he looks and yes, like a hawk, I notice what he's doing too. I do think he has been looking less, so there has been improvement, but he still looks - after all, he is a guy. The women he looks at aren't always prettier than me, but they definitely are wearing less and more revealing clothing than me.
So what am I doing? I'm not going to start dressing like those women do. I'm trying to keep in mind that this is normal for a man. It is my husband's battle that doesn't have anything to do with how I look. Before God, he chose and married me. I'm sure at one point, I was the one that caught his eye. I was the one he pursued. However, if he chooses to look lustfully at another woman...it's between him and God. I can't do anything about it - only God can. Yes, it stings when he looks, but the only thing I can do is to control myself and try to say to myself that there is nothing wrong with how I look or the person that I am. I also try to remember that just because he's looking elsewhere, it doesn't mean that I'm any less attractive....I'm just different than the other women. I also try to keep in mind that he does love me and ultimately that's what counts. So my battle is to try to not react negatively to his actions in such a way that it becomes detrimental to me (where I go on a downward spiral of feeling like I'm inadequate and physically not good enough) and my relationship with my husband (me thinking that he'd rather be with someone else since he's looking elsewhere).
Would it help if he continually pursued me and affirmed me often - yes, that would help me in building my self-esteem back up. However, I really don't think that I can count on this. He's read FMO. He's also read other books as well. So, he has the tools, but nothing has really happened yet....which leaves me to lean on God and His word which won't fail me. And if my husband did pursue and affirm me - how long would it last? A weekend? God can build me up for longer than that! I am perfect in His eyes. I need to be open to His word and His truth and I am praying that He helps me shut out Satan's lies that I'm not good enough because of my husband's actions. I'm also trying to be a better wife in many of the areas that Shaunti mentioned in FWO, not only because I love my husband, but also because it is what God would want me to. I can only control myself. Yes, at times, it does feel like I'm giving all of myself and then some to my husband - only to be hurt by him looking elsewhere because he's wired that way. It doesn't seem quite fair...but again, I can only control myself, try to be obedient to God and lean on His promises.
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Byron
Posts:0
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| 06/27/2009 3:37 PM |
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| I think you've missed my point. If you don't pursue with everything you've got, then you are not being like Jesus, who is pursuing you with everything He is. |
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LadywithaB
Posts:4
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| 06/27/2009 10:17 PM |
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HI all,
I just want you to know how much talking things out with this group has helped me. I realized that my husband does persue me, more than I sometimes give him credit for. He always opens my car door (even in the rain!) He always tells me I'm the most beautiful girl and the only one for him.
I had him read all of the posts, just so he could see that I wan't the only one who felt that strongly about all of this. He really liked it and it confirmed that I wasn't alone with those feelings and also that he isn't alone in having to deal with those insecurities.
Most of my "fears" aren't really as bad as my mind plays them up to be. Most of the time I can deal with it. It also helps to know where my weakness' are. When I'm over sensitive, I choose not to go to Wal-Mart or the grocery store with him because somehow it's easier for me that way. I don't have to see the temptations and worry about them.
My main problem is fearing that he might look, or me watching/waiting for him to look, not that he does very often. I know that it stems from my past relationships with men who were secretly addicted to porn (Thank God my hubby is NOT!! ) It's just the thoughts the devil whispers in my ear to cause division between us. I really need to use the Sword (God's Word) against those thoughts. For instance, 2Cor. 10:3-5...Taking every thought into captivity unto the obedience of Christ... Our men need that verse, but I think we do too, just as much!!
God bless ALL of you guys!! Numbers 6:24-26!!
My hubby just reminded me that the movie "Fireproof" is something EVERY married couple should see together!! It even deals with the "roaming eye" etc. |
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Julie Fidler
Posts:172
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| 06/28/2009 7:34 PM |
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OK, once again...
The book does NOT say that men cannot control what they look at. READ IT. It says they can't NOT NOTICE an attractive woman... but they CAN decide to look away, tear that thought down, take it captive (as the Bible says), and replace those thoughts with thoughts of his wife. He can CHOOSE not to look at porn or suggestive movies, TV shows, etc.
Paranoia will not help.
Praying for and encouraging your husband will.
-Julie |
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Julie Fidler
Posts:172
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| 06/28/2009 7:36 PM |
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If your husband is picturing sex with his daughter and his 14-year-old niece, then I would seriously consider whether or not this is a healthy person to be with. That goes way beyond noticing attractive women - it almost sounds like pedophilia.
-Julie
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LadywithaB
Posts:4
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| 06/29/2009 1:00 AM |
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Julie,
This is a reply to your post: by JFidler1979
If your husband is picturing sex with his daughter and his 14-year-old niece, then I would seriously consider whether or not this is a healthy person to be with. That goes way beyond noticing attractive women - it almost sounds like pedophilia.
Please note that heather did say:
Posted By heather on 06/20/2009 12:21 PM
I am no longer with this man.
She also did not say that it was HIS daughter or niece, only hers.
I'm sorry, Julie, but calling us all paranoid (n. an abnormal tendency to suspect and mistrust others) isn't very kind. Maybe, at times we lean toward that direction, but I think it's different. I know that she said over and over that "calling it normal doesn't not mean that it is 'Right'" but the word "normal" has the aire of giving it legitimacy (Transitive verb: to argue or prove that a claim or action is lawful or reasonable)that makes some of us want to scream "NO!" It just feels so unfair! God couldn't have created this "normally" in almost every male human. It's because of the fall of man, I know, but we all feel like we're in a catch 22. Our men want our trust, respect and honor, but the things they (supposedly) "naturally" do cause us to feel distrust, disrespect and dishonor toward them. We feel helpless and insecure and out of control. God wants us to give Him that control, but most often, we are not taught how to do that. We are told "pray for your man" or "just keep praying. Let go and let God". Sounds like good advice, but most times we aren't taught how to pray for them or ourselves and we flounder in a sea of fear and intimidation of our men's thought life and beautiful women. It's not usually paranoia, but being overwhelmed and not knowing what to do with those feelings. Like Heather said, it's like a poison to us when we don't know how to release it to God.
Julie, your reply comes across to me as kinda judgmental. (And I am not an overly sensitive person in that area). I completely understand that you must stand up for the things Shaunti actually said, not the things we've interpreted it as, but a little gentleness and kindness would be better accepted by all.
I also realize that I wrote in an earlier post that "according to your book, he shouldn't be able to control his thoughts". I understand the error in that now, it was just how it seemed to me in my hour of fear and "terror" (used lightly).
Being able to talk things out here has done me a world of good! Travis and MelisaJ. and others have shared scriptures and we've all helped give each other a little hope where it was lacking. (BTW MelisaJ, my husband and I looked those scriptures up last night and they are great! My hubby said that your "plan" is a great way to combat the devil! Thanks)
God bless Shaunti for writing her books, they have helped so many people (including me and I assume everyone on here). My husband and I learned so much about how we each think and behave. Chapter 7 of FWO just hit a scary spot in each of us. We learned things about our men that some of us wish we didn't know so well now. That can't be helped, but we can talk about it and find out that we are not the only ones who felt like throwing up after reading that chapter. That's not disrespecting Shaunti, it's just an open can of worms right in our face, and we don't like it.
Let me know guys if what I'm saying is right or not, OK??
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Shadows
Posts:4
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| 06/29/2009 6:26 PM |
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I have to say that I think it is very difficult not to be "paranoid" when it seems that everywhere we go (including church!) women are dressed very provocatively. I really don't know what has happened to women in the last few years but I, for one, am tired of seeing half dressed women every time I go to the grocery store or mall.
I am in my 50's now so definitely would not dress that way (and didn't in my younger years), but even women my age seem to think it's okay to be wearing tank tops with everything hanging out. If they want to dress that way then I wish they would do it in a bar or somewhere where my husband and I don't go. Even some of the women I work with dress terribly in the office.
Years ago, it was kind of rare to see someone dressed that way, especially at church. Now, it's the norm. I hate to say it, but sometimes I feel like LadywithaB - I don't even want to go out. Then, I resent feeling that way. Of course, staying home and watching TV is just as bad. I don't know what the answer is but I sure wish women would have a little more respect for themselves (and other women) and dress better.
Shadows
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Healingfromhurt
Posts:15
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| 06/30/2009 1:11 PM |
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LadywithaB - I agree with you.
Julie Fidler - you'd had written:
"The book does NOT say that men cannot control what they look at. READ IT. It says they can't NOT NOTICE an attractive woman... but they CAN decide to look away, tear that thought down, take it captive (as the Bible says), and replace those thoughts with thoughts of his wife. He can CHOOSE not to look at porn or suggestive movies, TV shows, etc. "
Men can't not notice an attractive woman. So, for a man to notice a physically attractive woman, wouldn't he need to look at her first? So, wouldn't this mean that he can't control his initial looking...that this "noticing/initial looking" is involuntary? After the initial involuntary look, he can choose to look away, tear down the thought, and replace the thoughts with his wife. Is this correct, Julie? Or have I been interpreting this all wrong even though I've read it over and over again?
You've had the benefit of working with Shaunti on her books. Was there any advice on how a wife can overcome feelings of inadequacy when she sees her husband involuntarily (and sometimes voluntarily) affirming the physical qualities of other women? Instead of reciting Shaunti's book, can you share YOUR experience in this area and how you overcame this? Or perhaps this was never an issue for you?
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Tiffany
Posts:29
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| 06/30/2009 9:50 PM |
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| Thank you Healingfromhurt! Your words describe exactly what I'm wanting to know/understand! |
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classylady05
Posts:3
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| 07/11/2009 2:13 PM |
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I have been struggling a huge deal with this too. I wondered why does it hurt me so bad and why can't I let go. Well I havn't found a way to let go yet, but I thought of some things that were a little comfort. I realized that this is exactly how God feels when we run to other things. That put a new perspective in my mind, this is a reminder of how I hurt God when I sin and turn from His ways. When I ignore him. I also realized that God calls us to be Christlike and God Still loves us despite our spiritual adultery. Despite our sins, he forgives us and offers us grace. My man is not accountable to me, yes it hurts me a Lot but it hurts God more and he is accountable mostly to God. Our men don't intentionally do these things. yes its disgusting and painful that its all around and we ladies can do nothing about it. But we are still called to rise above it and treat them with Love and grace as Christ does to us. As painful and hard as that is.
I don't think we will find a way over the hurt, its always going to be there, we can't change our mens minds nor the way they are made, we got to trust they are doing what they can not only for us but for God.
God will have to comfort us, |
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heather
Posts:7
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| 07/15/2009 9:35 PM |
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He sat on the couch with me, hand in hand at my family's Christmas celebration. At the same time he was consiously taking in every detail of my brother's girlfriend, and my two nieces. He intentionally put my family in his rolodex to USE at a later time. They are in there waiting for him to call them up intentionally or otherwise. How does this make me feel? Absolutely sick to my stomach. I wish I knew how to see the positive in this. I just don't. Please give me (not him) some way to deal with this. How do I not be hurt by it? I've told him how I feel and now he plans to keep it from me instead. How am I to trust him again? Please, please help! |
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Tiffany
Posts:29
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| 07/16/2009 3:40 PM |
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Heather, I want the same help, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute because I've been TRYING to focus on "facts" rather than what I "think he's thinking".
What did you mean by "now he plans to keep it form me instead"? Does that mean he knows it hurts you but he's going to do it anyway & hope you don't know that he's doing it? |
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Tiffany
Posts:29
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| 07/16/2009 3:51 PM |
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There's another twist to all this...If your husband is looking at other women & filing them in his rolodex/lusting, it's bad enough, but what if the women he's looking at are not anything like the way you look...he sees "something" that he can't see at home with you. So he wants you, he says he loves only you, but since your body is not what is most pleasing to his eyes, he'll keep you but get his visual preference somewhere else. NOTE: A lot of women are hurt because their DH has looked, but when they get home, most of those women HAVE the prefered parts available for him. What if you don't have those prefered bigger parts?? How can your DH still enjoy being with you...or are they just using you because they are co-dependent on you for family & living conveniences.
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heather
Posts:7
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| 07/17/2009 7:28 PM |
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Yes, he actually told me he would keep his thoughts from me in the future. Mostly because of all the grief I give him, not because he is trying to save me from the pain it may cause. He says that in all situations, our feelings go through a filter and that I should be able to filter out the pain. He says I am chosing to feel it. Yet he can't filter out the hard-on (excuse me) he gets from thinking about and looking at the other attractive women!
His therapist (also an ordained minister) told him that he will not ever be able to have a pure thought life and it is unhealthy for him to try. It is not natural to do so. He said is bound to fail and the feelings of failure are not healthy for him. His therapist also told him it is healthy to have fantasies, including three-somes, etc. How can I compete with all of this?! I am giving up. The pain and nausea are not worth it.
Thanks to all of you for your comments. I feel much better just getting this stuff off my chest. It is good to know that I am not alone. |
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Angie
Posts:6
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| 08/18/2009 6:14 PM |
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| This one is easy. Just ask your man what would help him to not notice attractive women. You can show your man respect by listening to what he says. In some cultures the males ask the women to completely cover up so they don't have to keep looking at them. This may seem to some feminisits to be a violation of women's rights - but it is probably the only idea a man will propose if he is to stop "looking'. Let's face it, women don't wear much these days. That being the case, it is not your man's fault for looking. Let's rejoice in the fact that he is a real man (and not gay). Take notice of who is attracted to and ask for specifics. I enjoy getting to know my man better that way. I do not feel insecure because he is extremely trustworthy and I know after 15 years of marraige he would never even consider straying. I often agree with him, when he points out an attractive female. Women must accept the fact that females were created to be beautiful, to capture the attention of men, so they can attract a mate and procreate. I'm sure your husband married you because he was attracted to you initially, but you must feel secure in the "concrete" that is your marriage and both of you continue to honour your marriage vows. Simple. |
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readinmom
Posts:4
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| 10/23/2009 9:21 PM |
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I came onto this forum just to see if anyone feels the way I do; I felt so very alone. I am at least relieved to know that I am not the only one having a major problem dealing with the things revealed in this chapter of the book. I actually hadn't read the book, even though a close friend recommended it, because I DIDN'T want to know what my husband was thinking if there was nothing I could do about it. But then after realizing through some circumstances that my husband does have a major battle with lust, I read it hoping to find help for how I was feeling about that. Unfortunately, I found out more than I bargained for in terms of exactly what those looks at other women mean. I, like some have mentioned, don't want to go anywhere with my husband anymore--nor do I want him to go anywhere without me. If I can help it, I don't leave the house when he is home so he isn't flipping through the TV channels looking for something to watch. This has affected every decision I make about every part of my day. I feel physically ill when he mentions going on vacation someplace tropical. When asked where I want to eat if we go out, I choose something like Wendy's drive-through so I don't have to wonder who in the restaurant he is thinking about. I don't want him to be "aware" of where the beautiful hostess is while he is "enjoying" an evening with me. If he were really enjoying being with me, why would he care that there is a beautiful woman in the room? If possible, I even stay away from my own family gatherings, because my nieces have quite a bit to attract a male's attention. The book and advice on this forum is great for woman who are married to men who are trying not to look. What about the physically faithful, long-term husband that doesn't try not to look. Sometimes I wonder how he gets any shopping done at all the way he checks out every female in view. He refuses to discuss the subject with me at all. Everytime I approach it, even by e-mail, he shuts down and will not respond. I have let him know that I am hurting. But, because I have also tried to become the loving, supporting, respecting wife he needs; BECAUSE I have tried to be Christ-like in my attitude and give him unconditional love, he thinks are marriage is going great. Meanwhile I spend all day every day in pain just wondering who he is seeing and what he is thinking about. I even feel ill when I am out alone because I am now looking at women through the glasses of whether he would be able to keep his eyes off of what I am seeing. I cannot compare with the young and shapely. I have gone through the thoughts of cosmetic surgery for the first time, which goes against everything I believe in and have stood for. I realize that even that would be hopeless. And hopeless is exactly how I feel about this whole thing. I am doomed to continue to show signs of aging while there will always be more young (even surgically improved) and very underdressed women available to look at in seemingly every situation we might find ourselves. I have felt like the only way I will ever feel peace in our relationship again is for one of us to be dead. Yes, I feel paranoid --and I wish I could stop--I just don't know how. It doesn't matter how often I read or hear that it is not about me; in MY mind it is most definitely about me. If I were only enough . . .
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